The proposed amendments are not insignificant. Infact, I’d say they risk undoing the good that’s in the motion that passed. It is incorrect to say that Israel has a right to defend itself. It does not have this right on occupied territory. An occupier has no right to self defence. The occupied, however, does have a right to armed resistance: this is international law. No one has the right to commit war crimes, genocide or crimes against humanity. These should be prosecuted on both sides by the ICC and ICJ, and Canadian MPs should not act as judge, jury and executioner.
People need to pay attention to the proposed amendments so that the victory of the original motion is not undone.
The amendment adds « and maintain Canada’s position that Israel has a right to exist in peace and security with its neighbours”. »
The problem is and always has been that Canada (and the west) has never supported Palestinian right to exist in peace with its neighbour. At minimum try to hide your obvious bias by saying « Israel and Palestinians have the right to peace and security with each other ».
It also asks for Hamas to put down their arms. You can’t say this under international law. The occupied have a right to defend themselves. This is a breach of international law. Why not specify Israel to put down their arms? Why is it even necessary to add anything to this sentence that calls for a cease fire? It seems like they are trying to hide language in there so they can support Israel’s position that there will be no ease fire until Hamas surrenders. And that is ridiculous. Israel will win at the negotiating table what it has not won on the battlefield. If this change is agreed to it is effectively saying Israel can continue with no ceasefire indefinitely: because Hamas will never surrender. Nor should they. They are a legitimate resistance army with the right to armed resistance. They, as any people including Israelis, should be on trial for war crimes at the ICC. Let a judge decide who is guilty of what with due process.
Canada and the west need to stop acting like judge, jury and executioner. It’s not our job or our business. Just focus on being human and stop trying to slink in these edits which nullify the intent if the original motion.
Nate, once again you betray the mask you wear. You vote for the motion and try to influence people here on accepting the amendments….they are not minor amendments. And if you truly were in agreement with the NDP motion you would be outraged at the proposed amendments.
Once again, you show yourself to be a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
Most Canadians probably do support a ceasefire. But it must be under the proper conditions. If you expect the Hamas to release the hostages first, I would agree. If you see it as an incentive to get the hostages released, I think it would be ineffective. Israel tried that. Remember? And as for the Hamas laying down their arms in a ceasefire it seems impossible. Charlie Brown/Lucy/Football. While most Canadians may see this differently, we count on our MPs to provide leadership. The Liberals have managed to stay in power by siding with the NDP. But they have not given us leadership.
Hostages were released during the first ceasefire when Israel also released hostages it had taken. Because thousands of Palestinians have been put into Israeli jails without charge or trial. Many of those with charges are for things like stone throwing or even social media posts showing sympathy with Gazans. Palestinians are under martial law while Israelis are under civil law.
If you want the hostages released, a ceasefire needs to happen. You must know that hostages are also dying by indiscriminate bombing? And Israel shot and killed fleeing hostages who were shirtless, waving white flags, and shouting in Hebrew - because the IOF is so indiscriminate?
You know that Hamas isn't just a bloodthirsty terrorist organization, right? You could actually read their 2017 charter, where they point out that they aren't fighting Jews because of their religion but Zionist colonizers. Antisemitism is a largely European creation, as were pogroms, ghettos, and the Holocaust, and Palestinians or Arabs in general should not have to pay for European crimes.
Turns out Arabs and Muslims also have agency and self-determination: they're humans just like us! They can see what imperialism and colonialism look like.
Hamas wouldn't exist without the occupation, ethnic cleansing, apartheid, blockades, siege, land grabs, mass murder bombing campaigns on Gaza every few years (referred to by the IOF as "mowing the lawn"), routine use of torture and sexual assault by Israel, actual, well-documented use of human shields by Israel, etc., that have gone on for a century (even before Israel's creation in 1948).
The first terrorist organizations in Palestine were Zionists, like the Irgun, created in 1931. The King David Hotel bombing was in 1946, for example, and the Deir Yassin massacre was committed in 1948 along with countless other massacres, like the Tantura massacre by the IOF. The 1995 assassination of Yitzhak Rabin was by a Zionist terrorist. The murder of American activist Rachel Corrie in 2003 was in Rafah, where currently more than a million Gazans are crammed into tents with one toilet per 1,000 people and no food or water.
Another important thing people seem to not understand is that there was no ceasefire for Palestinians on Oct. 6. They were under occupation, apartheid, and siege, without basic rights. Hundreds of Palestinians were killed in 2023 before Oct. 7, and no one cared.
When Palestinians peacefully protested - not for the first or last time - in 2018-2019 in the Great March of Return, Israel slaughtered hundreds of them, including medics, children, elderly, the disabled, journalists, etc. They injured thousands more, with Israeli snipers bragging about the number of knees they shattered each day.
When Palestinians themselves can't peacefully protest, when BDS is outlawed in many US states and countries around the world, when government workers and many corporations have to sign agreements that they won't criticize Israel, when stating facts or showing sympathy for Palestinians gets you fired, harassed, exiled, or even killed, when pro-Palestine protests are violently cracked down on by police around the world, etc., what can the Palestinians do?
Fighting is the only option for Palestinians because every form of resistance isn't allowed for them, or even their supporters abroad. If your home was stolen, if you lived in a concentration camp your entire life, if you were an orphan because your entire family was murdered, would you too not fight?
I agree with your title: The Conservatives don't want a ceasefire. But lets be honest. The Liberal leadership too had to be dragged to the motion while kicking and screaming, most reluctant to upset the order and most out of touch with their MPs and the rest of the Canadians. And no, a recognition of a State of Palestine while Hamas controls Gaza (and likely continues to be their people's choice) is not anymore impossible to accept than the precedent recognition of Israel while it has been governed by a far-right cabinet openly calling for destruction of all of Gaza and for new settlements to be built in Gaza - and an army happily carrying out such destruction. This would be hypocrisy by the democratic world.
Now Trudeau and the Liberals are condemning Iran for attacking Israel, as if it wasn't retaliation for Israel bombing Iran's embassy in Syria. The evil empire would like us to believe Iran is the aggressor. Just like it wants us to believe Hamas is the aggressor. It's not working anymore.
The conservatives want a ceasefire agreed to by Hamas as well and with the return of all the hostages taken by Hamas. It is remarkable that the name Hamas is never spoken when a ceasefire is talked about, as if they have no role in this situation at all. What is being done to these hostages? Do you care? Would you care of it was your family member?
Because Israel is committing genocide, which Nate and the Liberal party still won't acknowledge. It's not a war of two armies from opposing nations. Israel is a fascist, racist, apartheid settler colony that has been stealing and occupying Palestinian land and murdering and displacing Palestinians since even before 1948, the year Israel was created.
Do you know how many Israeli civilians have been killed since Oct. 7? None.
Do you know how many Israeli homes have been destroyed since Oct. 7? None.
Meanwhile, since Oct. 7:
-more than 40,000 Palestinian civilians have been slaughtered, including over 14,000 children, 200 humanitarian workers (the most in any conflict ever recorded), more than 100 journalists (again, a record), and over 12,000 still under the rubble
-nearly all 2.3 million Palestinians in Gaza have been ethnically cleansed and displaced from their homes
-thousands have been ethnically cleansed from the West Bank, where there is no Hamas, and thousands of new settlements have been approved by Israel on Palestinian territory
-hundreds of Palestinians in the West Bank have been murdered and IOF raids the territory daily
-more than 10,000 Palestinians have been taken prisoner (hostage), most without charge or trial
-Israel has blockaded Gaza so no food, water, electricity, medical supplies or humanitarian aid is allowed entry (the ones Israel did let in now cancelled their work in Gaza after Israel murdered 7 international aid workers from WCK)
-a majority of Gaza's infrastructure, homes, bakeries, markets, hospitals, schools, mosques, churches, cemeteries, farm fields, water wells, forests, etc. have been completely or partially destroyed
-Palestinians in Gaza cannot leave by air, sea, or land, except for a select few who manage to pay large fees to sketchy companies
It's odd that you ask about the hostages and the MP's feelings if his family member was taken by Hamas given that a far greater number of people are being killed and imprisoned by Israel. Not that you shouldn't have empathy for them as well, but why are they special? Where is your empathy for Palestinians? Would you care if your family was bombed, sniped, falsely imprisoned, or raped and tortured in an Israeli prison?
There are detailed reports of the torture Palestinians endure in Israeli torture facilities, unlike the debunked stories told by Israel and repeated by corporate media and our government, including 'beheaded babies' (two babies were killed Oct. 7 and they weren't put in ovens or beheaded) and 'systematic mass rape' (there may be one or two credible cases of rape, but even the UN says there's no proof it was systematic). But you probably don't care about that. You'd rather otherize and orientalize the Palestinians, as our government does.
After the first hostage exchange, during the first ceasefire, Israeli captives told the media how well their Hamas captors treated them. One of them even shook the hand of a Hamas fighter as they were freed, which was caught on camera as well. Then Israel stopped allowing released hostages to talk to the media. I wonder why?
If you want to regurgitate false Zionist talking points, feel free to do that so I can debunk them all individually.
Hamas took videos of the atrocities they did to Israelis on Oct 7. Ask journalist Matt Gurney. He saw the videos and wrote about it with heavy heart and horror. Where did you get all these facts about what has happened in Gaza because Hamas will not let anyone in to see the truth?. All we get is information from the Hamas Health ministry that is controlled by Hamas. Who is really stopping the aid? I heard Hamas is in many cases. I do not want to see anyone killed. Why is no one calling for Hamas to release the hostages? Should Israel just lay down their guns without getting the hostages back and then wait until Hamas slaughters more Israelis?
I could link you to a million reports full of info, but it really requires that you care to learn what's happening. Look to organizations like UNICEF, Doctors without Borders (MSF), and others. Every genuine human rights organization has been making statements and filing reports. You could try looking.
1. The fact that Hamas committed atrocities doesn't negate a century of brutality, war crimes, and crimes against humanity, culminating in genocide, perpetrated against Palestinians by Israel. Oct. 7 was a reaction to those crimes, not the other way around. Hundreds of Palestinians were killed in 2023 before Oct. 7 and the West and media didn't care. There was no ceasefire for Palestinians before Oct. 7.
Also, Palestinians, as an occupied people, are allowed to take up arms against the occupier by law. It's the law of belligerent occupation codified in the Geneva Conventions. That is not to say civilians are allowed to be targeted, that is a crime. However, we know from reports by even Israeli outlets like Haaretz that Israel killed many of its own civilians on Oct. 7 with tanks and helicopters as they enforced the so-called "Hannibal Directive" on a mass scale.
Furthermore, resistance groups that have committed atrocities are now seen as justified because they had no choice: it was either kill or stay a subhuman with less or no rights. For example, during slave revolts in the US, like that of Nat Turner, who targeted and killed white people, including babies, is seen as justified because he was fighting for his freedom and self-determination. To get out of slavery. Nelson Mandela and the ANC, while whitewashed in history, also committed atrocities to bring about their freedom from apartheid in South Africa. There are many examples, but no one would dare to condemn these people today because we understand their reasons and purpose. We understand that if they didn't commit atrocities, their people would still be condemned to subhuman status.
2. Where did I get these facts? That you have to ask me that is an indictment of both our media and governments. I will acknowledge that if you don't bother searching for the information, you probably won't find it, which is by design.
For starters, you can look at the case South Africa brought before the International Court of Justice, which has deemed Israel's actions a "plausible genocide". The trial will likely take years, but they will find it amounts to genocide as countless genocide scholars and experts have already called it a genocide. Any layperson can read the convention and see this fact for themselves.
You can read South Africa's well-researched briefs, reports by human rights organizations like Amnesty International, B'Tselem, and Human Rights Watch, UN statements and reports, which come out frequently, including the recent report by Special Rapporteur Francesca Albanese detailing the genocide, or you can go to many alternative news outlets, which I know you will say are illegitimate, including: The Electronic Intifada, Al Jazeera, Middle East Eye, Jacobin, The Intercept, Mondoweiss, etc. You can even look to Jewish anti-Zionist organizations like Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP), Independent Jewish Voices (IJV), and IfNotNow. You can look to the work of historians and authors Ilan Pappe, Norman Finkelstein, Naomi Klein, Noam Chomsky, Rashid Khalidi, etc. You can look to Israel's own media, like +972 Magazine and Haaretz. But even the mainstream media has covered much of this info, even if it is hidden or missing important info. Or you can search any claim I made and find it yourself.
3. Saying that the death count is from the Hamas health ministry and therefore false is tantamount to genocide denial. Hamas's armed wing is called the Qassam Brigades, but there are plenty of governmental, social, and medical workers who have nothing to do with the resistance or fighting. Their data from past slaughters by Israel have been proven true and are used by the US, UN, and Israel itself. The numbers are not in dispute, but the media and even US President Biden have purposely cast doubt on the numbers for nefarious reasons.
You can find countless images and videos of the death and destruction. Truly gruesome images that will haunt me forever. It sounds like you have no interest in finding out any of this and prefer to find ways to defend Israel. You act like Oct. 7 was so egregious as to justify genocide and a century of crimes by Israel.
4. People do want to see the hostages held by Hamas released. But to do that requires a ceasefire. Hostages have already been killed by bombs and a few were even executed by the IOF while they were shirtless, waving white flags, running toward them, and shouting in Hebrew. Also, now that famine has reached Gaza and there is no food or water, how do you think the hostages are fairing? They're also starving. Do you care about that?
During the first brief ceasefire, both sides released hostages in an exchange. That's how you get the hostages out, by negotiating, not bombing and indiscriminately murdering.
5. Israel should just lay down their guns, yes. Because they're an illegal occupying force. They should actually stick to defence rather than offence, but they don't know how. The entire Israeli/Zionist project is about ethnic cleansing and mass murder. The goal has and always will be to have the entirety of Palestine become Israel.
6. (ADDED WITH EDIT): You say Hamas won't let anyone into Gaza. It is Israel that doesn't allow journalists, aid workers, or anyone else to and from Gaza. Not Hamas. It's remarkable that you'd even say this, but I forgot to respond to it. I thought it was common knowledge, but even the basics elude most people.
It sounds like you just don't want to know what's actually going on and have some connection to Israel that makes it impossible for you to see the truth. Or you're just an actual propagandist and shill for Israel.
Thanks for the detailed explanation of what was in the motion - that's very helpful.
I'm always wary of foreign policy being treated as a partisan issue. Louis St. Laurent emphasized the need for national unity in the 1947 Gray Lecture:
"The first general principle upon which I think we are agreed is that our external policies shall not destroy our unity. No policy can be regarded as wise which divides the people whose effort and resources must put it into effect. This consideration applies not only to the two main cultural groups in our country. It applies equally to sectionalism of any kind. We dare not fashion a policy which is based on the particular interests of any economic group, of any class or of any section in this country. We must be on guard especially against the claims of extravagant regionalism no matter where they have their origin. Our history has shown this to be a consideration in our external policy of which we, more even than others, must be perpetually conscious. The role of this country in world affairs will prosper only as we maintain this principle, for a disunited Canada will be a powerless one."
Canadian foreign policy should be based on a broad consensus.
Regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Canada has a strong interest in international peace and stability. Canada has no interest in seeing Israel destroyed, especially by an enemy like Hamas which is willing to commit terrible atrocities against civilians; hence Canada's official position that Israel has the right to exist, and therefore the right to use force when attacked. (The right to exist, without the right to use force, is completely meaningless.)
At the same time, the suffering of the Palestinians is also a key grievance of the Arab and Muslim world, undermining the stability of the international status quo every time whenever Palestinian children are killed. Therefore Canada *also* has a strong interest in seeing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict resolved, based on the two-state solution (with the pre-1967 borders as the baseline) - or, at the very least, in seeing that Israel is not the obstacle to the resolution of the conflict.
I would hope that all three parties, and most Canadians, would be able to agree on the following consensus:
1. Canada supports Israel's right to exist, as agreed by the UN under Resolution 181, and its right to use force when attacked, in accordance with the laws of war.
2. Canada supports the humanitarian and development needs of the Palestinians.
3. Canada, Israel, and the Palestinians share a strong interest in a peaceful resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, based on the pre-1967 borders (as in the 2002 Arab Peace Initiative), allowing both Israel and the Palestinians to live side by side in peace. Canada will support those who are willing to accept compromise, and oppose those who are not.
The proposed amendments are not insignificant. Infact, I’d say they risk undoing the good that’s in the motion that passed. It is incorrect to say that Israel has a right to defend itself. It does not have this right on occupied territory. An occupier has no right to self defence. The occupied, however, does have a right to armed resistance: this is international law. No one has the right to commit war crimes, genocide or crimes against humanity. These should be prosecuted on both sides by the ICC and ICJ, and Canadian MPs should not act as judge, jury and executioner.
People need to pay attention to the proposed amendments so that the victory of the original motion is not undone.
The amendment adds « and maintain Canada’s position that Israel has a right to exist in peace and security with its neighbours”. »
The problem is and always has been that Canada (and the west) has never supported Palestinian right to exist in peace with its neighbour. At minimum try to hide your obvious bias by saying « Israel and Palestinians have the right to peace and security with each other ».
It also asks for Hamas to put down their arms. You can’t say this under international law. The occupied have a right to defend themselves. This is a breach of international law. Why not specify Israel to put down their arms? Why is it even necessary to add anything to this sentence that calls for a cease fire? It seems like they are trying to hide language in there so they can support Israel’s position that there will be no ease fire until Hamas surrenders. And that is ridiculous. Israel will win at the negotiating table what it has not won on the battlefield. If this change is agreed to it is effectively saying Israel can continue with no ceasefire indefinitely: because Hamas will never surrender. Nor should they. They are a legitimate resistance army with the right to armed resistance. They, as any people including Israelis, should be on trial for war crimes at the ICC. Let a judge decide who is guilty of what with due process.
Canada and the west need to stop acting like judge, jury and executioner. It’s not our job or our business. Just focus on being human and stop trying to slink in these edits which nullify the intent if the original motion.
Nate, once again you betray the mask you wear. You vote for the motion and try to influence people here on accepting the amendments….they are not minor amendments. And if you truly were in agreement with the NDP motion you would be outraged at the proposed amendments.
Once again, you show yourself to be a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
You’re not fooling us.
Most Canadians probably do support a ceasefire. But it must be under the proper conditions. If you expect the Hamas to release the hostages first, I would agree. If you see it as an incentive to get the hostages released, I think it would be ineffective. Israel tried that. Remember? And as for the Hamas laying down their arms in a ceasefire it seems impossible. Charlie Brown/Lucy/Football. While most Canadians may see this differently, we count on our MPs to provide leadership. The Liberals have managed to stay in power by siding with the NDP. But they have not given us leadership.
Hostages were released during the first ceasefire when Israel also released hostages it had taken. Because thousands of Palestinians have been put into Israeli jails without charge or trial. Many of those with charges are for things like stone throwing or even social media posts showing sympathy with Gazans. Palestinians are under martial law while Israelis are under civil law.
If you want the hostages released, a ceasefire needs to happen. You must know that hostages are also dying by indiscriminate bombing? And Israel shot and killed fleeing hostages who were shirtless, waving white flags, and shouting in Hebrew - because the IOF is so indiscriminate?
You know that Hamas isn't just a bloodthirsty terrorist organization, right? You could actually read their 2017 charter, where they point out that they aren't fighting Jews because of their religion but Zionist colonizers. Antisemitism is a largely European creation, as were pogroms, ghettos, and the Holocaust, and Palestinians or Arabs in general should not have to pay for European crimes.
Turns out Arabs and Muslims also have agency and self-determination: they're humans just like us! They can see what imperialism and colonialism look like.
Hamas wouldn't exist without the occupation, ethnic cleansing, apartheid, blockades, siege, land grabs, mass murder bombing campaigns on Gaza every few years (referred to by the IOF as "mowing the lawn"), routine use of torture and sexual assault by Israel, actual, well-documented use of human shields by Israel, etc., that have gone on for a century (even before Israel's creation in 1948).
The first terrorist organizations in Palestine were Zionists, like the Irgun, created in 1931. The King David Hotel bombing was in 1946, for example, and the Deir Yassin massacre was committed in 1948 along with countless other massacres, like the Tantura massacre by the IOF. The 1995 assassination of Yitzhak Rabin was by a Zionist terrorist. The murder of American activist Rachel Corrie in 2003 was in Rafah, where currently more than a million Gazans are crammed into tents with one toilet per 1,000 people and no food or water.
Another important thing people seem to not understand is that there was no ceasefire for Palestinians on Oct. 6. They were under occupation, apartheid, and siege, without basic rights. Hundreds of Palestinians were killed in 2023 before Oct. 7, and no one cared.
When Palestinians peacefully protested - not for the first or last time - in 2018-2019 in the Great March of Return, Israel slaughtered hundreds of them, including medics, children, elderly, the disabled, journalists, etc. They injured thousands more, with Israeli snipers bragging about the number of knees they shattered each day.
When Palestinians themselves can't peacefully protest, when BDS is outlawed in many US states and countries around the world, when government workers and many corporations have to sign agreements that they won't criticize Israel, when stating facts or showing sympathy for Palestinians gets you fired, harassed, exiled, or even killed, when pro-Palestine protests are violently cracked down on by police around the world, etc., what can the Palestinians do?
Fighting is the only option for Palestinians because every form of resistance isn't allowed for them, or even their supporters abroad. If your home was stolen, if you lived in a concentration camp your entire life, if you were an orphan because your entire family was murdered, would you too not fight?
I agree with your title: The Conservatives don't want a ceasefire. But lets be honest. The Liberal leadership too had to be dragged to the motion while kicking and screaming, most reluctant to upset the order and most out of touch with their MPs and the rest of the Canadians. And no, a recognition of a State of Palestine while Hamas controls Gaza (and likely continues to be their people's choice) is not anymore impossible to accept than the precedent recognition of Israel while it has been governed by a far-right cabinet openly calling for destruction of all of Gaza and for new settlements to be built in Gaza - and an army happily carrying out such destruction. This would be hypocrisy by the democratic world.
The only people that get to decide who governs Gaza are the Palestinians.
Now Trudeau and the Liberals are condemning Iran for attacking Israel, as if it wasn't retaliation for Israel bombing Iran's embassy in Syria. The evil empire would like us to believe Iran is the aggressor. Just like it wants us to believe Hamas is the aggressor. It's not working anymore.
The conservatives want a ceasefire agreed to by Hamas as well and with the return of all the hostages taken by Hamas. It is remarkable that the name Hamas is never spoken when a ceasefire is talked about, as if they have no role in this situation at all. What is being done to these hostages? Do you care? Would you care of it was your family member?
Because Israel is committing genocide, which Nate and the Liberal party still won't acknowledge. It's not a war of two armies from opposing nations. Israel is a fascist, racist, apartheid settler colony that has been stealing and occupying Palestinian land and murdering and displacing Palestinians since even before 1948, the year Israel was created.
Do you know how many Israeli civilians have been killed since Oct. 7? None.
Do you know how many Israeli homes have been destroyed since Oct. 7? None.
Meanwhile, since Oct. 7:
-more than 40,000 Palestinian civilians have been slaughtered, including over 14,000 children, 200 humanitarian workers (the most in any conflict ever recorded), more than 100 journalists (again, a record), and over 12,000 still under the rubble
-nearly all 2.3 million Palestinians in Gaza have been ethnically cleansed and displaced from their homes
-thousands have been ethnically cleansed from the West Bank, where there is no Hamas, and thousands of new settlements have been approved by Israel on Palestinian territory
-hundreds of Palestinians in the West Bank have been murdered and IOF raids the territory daily
-more than 10,000 Palestinians have been taken prisoner (hostage), most without charge or trial
-Israel has blockaded Gaza so no food, water, electricity, medical supplies or humanitarian aid is allowed entry (the ones Israel did let in now cancelled their work in Gaza after Israel murdered 7 international aid workers from WCK)
-a majority of Gaza's infrastructure, homes, bakeries, markets, hospitals, schools, mosques, churches, cemeteries, farm fields, water wells, forests, etc. have been completely or partially destroyed
-Palestinians in Gaza cannot leave by air, sea, or land, except for a select few who manage to pay large fees to sketchy companies
It's odd that you ask about the hostages and the MP's feelings if his family member was taken by Hamas given that a far greater number of people are being killed and imprisoned by Israel. Not that you shouldn't have empathy for them as well, but why are they special? Where is your empathy for Palestinians? Would you care if your family was bombed, sniped, falsely imprisoned, or raped and tortured in an Israeli prison?
There are detailed reports of the torture Palestinians endure in Israeli torture facilities, unlike the debunked stories told by Israel and repeated by corporate media and our government, including 'beheaded babies' (two babies were killed Oct. 7 and they weren't put in ovens or beheaded) and 'systematic mass rape' (there may be one or two credible cases of rape, but even the UN says there's no proof it was systematic). But you probably don't care about that. You'd rather otherize and orientalize the Palestinians, as our government does.
After the first hostage exchange, during the first ceasefire, Israeli captives told the media how well their Hamas captors treated them. One of them even shook the hand of a Hamas fighter as they were freed, which was caught on camera as well. Then Israel stopped allowing released hostages to talk to the media. I wonder why?
If you want to regurgitate false Zionist talking points, feel free to do that so I can debunk them all individually.
Hamas took videos of the atrocities they did to Israelis on Oct 7. Ask journalist Matt Gurney. He saw the videos and wrote about it with heavy heart and horror. Where did you get all these facts about what has happened in Gaza because Hamas will not let anyone in to see the truth?. All we get is information from the Hamas Health ministry that is controlled by Hamas. Who is really stopping the aid? I heard Hamas is in many cases. I do not want to see anyone killed. Why is no one calling for Hamas to release the hostages? Should Israel just lay down their guns without getting the hostages back and then wait until Hamas slaughters more Israelis?
I can provide you links to reports if you're having trouble finding anything.
Here are a few:
South Africa's original brief to the ICJ: https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf
UN Special Rapporteur report on the genocide: https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/sessions-regular/session55/advance-versions/a-hrc-55-73-auv.pdf
Euro-Med Monitor report on Israel inflicting famine on Gaza and targeting aid trucks: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1P7yQYp7KC2eG711baOY9Ijwa5nht7a4B/view
UN on treatment of Palestinian women and girls: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reported-human-rights-violations-against
Oxfam report on the "unprecedented suffering and destruction" in Gaza: https://policy-practice.oxfam.org/resources/inflicting-unprecedented-suffering-and-destruction-seven-ways-the-government-of-621591/
B'Tselem report on Israeli apartheid and "Jewish supremacy": https://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is_apartheid
Amnesty International report on Israeli apartheid: https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/5141/2022/en/
I could link you to a million reports full of info, but it really requires that you care to learn what's happening. Look to organizations like UNICEF, Doctors without Borders (MSF), and others. Every genuine human rights organization has been making statements and filing reports. You could try looking.
1. The fact that Hamas committed atrocities doesn't negate a century of brutality, war crimes, and crimes against humanity, culminating in genocide, perpetrated against Palestinians by Israel. Oct. 7 was a reaction to those crimes, not the other way around. Hundreds of Palestinians were killed in 2023 before Oct. 7 and the West and media didn't care. There was no ceasefire for Palestinians before Oct. 7.
Also, Palestinians, as an occupied people, are allowed to take up arms against the occupier by law. It's the law of belligerent occupation codified in the Geneva Conventions. That is not to say civilians are allowed to be targeted, that is a crime. However, we know from reports by even Israeli outlets like Haaretz that Israel killed many of its own civilians on Oct. 7 with tanks and helicopters as they enforced the so-called "Hannibal Directive" on a mass scale.
Furthermore, resistance groups that have committed atrocities are now seen as justified because they had no choice: it was either kill or stay a subhuman with less or no rights. For example, during slave revolts in the US, like that of Nat Turner, who targeted and killed white people, including babies, is seen as justified because he was fighting for his freedom and self-determination. To get out of slavery. Nelson Mandela and the ANC, while whitewashed in history, also committed atrocities to bring about their freedom from apartheid in South Africa. There are many examples, but no one would dare to condemn these people today because we understand their reasons and purpose. We understand that if they didn't commit atrocities, their people would still be condemned to subhuman status.
2. Where did I get these facts? That you have to ask me that is an indictment of both our media and governments. I will acknowledge that if you don't bother searching for the information, you probably won't find it, which is by design.
For starters, you can look at the case South Africa brought before the International Court of Justice, which has deemed Israel's actions a "plausible genocide". The trial will likely take years, but they will find it amounts to genocide as countless genocide scholars and experts have already called it a genocide. Any layperson can read the convention and see this fact for themselves.
You can read South Africa's well-researched briefs, reports by human rights organizations like Amnesty International, B'Tselem, and Human Rights Watch, UN statements and reports, which come out frequently, including the recent report by Special Rapporteur Francesca Albanese detailing the genocide, or you can go to many alternative news outlets, which I know you will say are illegitimate, including: The Electronic Intifada, Al Jazeera, Middle East Eye, Jacobin, The Intercept, Mondoweiss, etc. You can even look to Jewish anti-Zionist organizations like Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP), Independent Jewish Voices (IJV), and IfNotNow. You can look to the work of historians and authors Ilan Pappe, Norman Finkelstein, Naomi Klein, Noam Chomsky, Rashid Khalidi, etc. You can look to Israel's own media, like +972 Magazine and Haaretz. But even the mainstream media has covered much of this info, even if it is hidden or missing important info. Or you can search any claim I made and find it yourself.
3. Saying that the death count is from the Hamas health ministry and therefore false is tantamount to genocide denial. Hamas's armed wing is called the Qassam Brigades, but there are plenty of governmental, social, and medical workers who have nothing to do with the resistance or fighting. Their data from past slaughters by Israel have been proven true and are used by the US, UN, and Israel itself. The numbers are not in dispute, but the media and even US President Biden have purposely cast doubt on the numbers for nefarious reasons.
You can find countless images and videos of the death and destruction. Truly gruesome images that will haunt me forever. It sounds like you have no interest in finding out any of this and prefer to find ways to defend Israel. You act like Oct. 7 was so egregious as to justify genocide and a century of crimes by Israel.
4. People do want to see the hostages held by Hamas released. But to do that requires a ceasefire. Hostages have already been killed by bombs and a few were even executed by the IOF while they were shirtless, waving white flags, running toward them, and shouting in Hebrew. Also, now that famine has reached Gaza and there is no food or water, how do you think the hostages are fairing? They're also starving. Do you care about that?
During the first brief ceasefire, both sides released hostages in an exchange. That's how you get the hostages out, by negotiating, not bombing and indiscriminately murdering.
5. Israel should just lay down their guns, yes. Because they're an illegal occupying force. They should actually stick to defence rather than offence, but they don't know how. The entire Israeli/Zionist project is about ethnic cleansing and mass murder. The goal has and always will be to have the entirety of Palestine become Israel.
6. (ADDED WITH EDIT): You say Hamas won't let anyone into Gaza. It is Israel that doesn't allow journalists, aid workers, or anyone else to and from Gaza. Not Hamas. It's remarkable that you'd even say this, but I forgot to respond to it. I thought it was common knowledge, but even the basics elude most people.
It sounds like you just don't want to know what's actually going on and have some connection to Israel that makes it impossible for you to see the truth. Or you're just an actual propagandist and shill for Israel.
Thanks for the detailed explanation of what was in the motion - that's very helpful.
I'm always wary of foreign policy being treated as a partisan issue. Louis St. Laurent emphasized the need for national unity in the 1947 Gray Lecture:
"The first general principle upon which I think we are agreed is that our external policies shall not destroy our unity. No policy can be regarded as wise which divides the people whose effort and resources must put it into effect. This consideration applies not only to the two main cultural groups in our country. It applies equally to sectionalism of any kind. We dare not fashion a policy which is based on the particular interests of any economic group, of any class or of any section in this country. We must be on guard especially against the claims of extravagant regionalism no matter where they have their origin. Our history has shown this to be a consideration in our external policy of which we, more even than others, must be perpetually conscious. The role of this country in world affairs will prosper only as we maintain this principle, for a disunited Canada will be a powerless one."
Canadian foreign policy should be based on a broad consensus.
Regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Canada has a strong interest in international peace and stability. Canada has no interest in seeing Israel destroyed, especially by an enemy like Hamas which is willing to commit terrible atrocities against civilians; hence Canada's official position that Israel has the right to exist, and therefore the right to use force when attacked. (The right to exist, without the right to use force, is completely meaningless.)
At the same time, the suffering of the Palestinians is also a key grievance of the Arab and Muslim world, undermining the stability of the international status quo every time whenever Palestinian children are killed. Therefore Canada *also* has a strong interest in seeing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict resolved, based on the two-state solution (with the pre-1967 borders as the baseline) - or, at the very least, in seeing that Israel is not the obstacle to the resolution of the conflict.
I would hope that all three parties, and most Canadians, would be able to agree on the following consensus:
1. Canada supports Israel's right to exist, as agreed by the UN under Resolution 181, and its right to use force when attacked, in accordance with the laws of war.
2. Canada supports the humanitarian and development needs of the Palestinians.
3. Canada, Israel, and the Palestinians share a strong interest in a peaceful resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, based on the pre-1967 borders (as in the 2002 Arab Peace Initiative), allowing both Israel and the Palestinians to live side by side in peace. Canada will support those who are willing to accept compromise, and oppose those who are not.